Hartley’s gone

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by rusty_nail » Monday 27th 2018f August 2018 11:24:18 PM

Falkirkfan6871 wrote: ...
Hughes relegated Raith. I personally think he’s lost it as manager now he’s another Terry Butcher. Hughes did bring great success but I really don’t believe he could turn it around now.
...
He's admitted he made mistakes and compromised at Raith. It back fired spectacularly but Hartley at Dundee could have easily relegated them had he not been sacked and he too would have relegation on his CV. That he doesn't meant he looked a decent bet for us.

When else are we going to have the opportunity to appoint someone with genuine affection for the club and a cup winning manager.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Sir Jones » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:11:20 AM

Genuinely surprised by this. Can only assume the BoD have someone lined up who can bring a couple of players with him before the window shuts on Friday.

I hadn't seen much of us this season so this feels a little premature to me but I'm guessing comments made over the weekend, particularly around training, were the last straw.

Not seen many names that tickled my fancy. Gobsmacked so many want Hughes back. He's a huge from me. McIntyre, Duffy, Pressley etc - why do we always have to dredge up these guys as replacements? Robbie Nielson doesn't really do it for me either but then he's one of a number of ex players that I loathed (did he ever take a legal throw in during his career? :lol: ).

I don't have an alternative myself. Someone like Martin Rennie would've been ideal a couple of seasons back so someone in that mould.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by John Markie » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 08:05:09 AM

Need someone decent this time, not another same old face, ex Hearts w@nker. We have had more than enough of them. The trouble is what the new person will inherit. We have four groups (imo) of players at the club. One - decent players who appear to have sufficient skill to start each week and form the backbone of the side. Two - a few players who could be useful to have as squad players to fill in gaps when injury comes along, etc. Three - still a few players who we have not seen enough of in competitive action to make a clear call on ability. Four - the dross that simply are not good enough, and sadly this is quite a large group.

Again, in my opinion we need this addressed as a matter of urgency and I'd suggest the following players fall into these groupings.

One - players with enough ability, or potentially enough to be starters/or at least 1st team squad players.
D Mitchell (GK)
McGhee (as a central defender)
Russell
Robson
Dunne
McKee
Greenwood
Irving
Lewis


Two - players we could use as emergency cover, subs etc.
Fasan (GK)
Mutch (GK)
Kidd
O'Hara
Froxylias

Three - players we have not seen enough of to reach a conclusion on ability etc
Brough
Sammut
Turner


Four - not good enough
Young (GK)
Muirhead
Harrison
Dallison
Paton
Owen-Evans
Petravicious
Mackin
Harris
All the academy graduates apart from Dunne (Dunne and J Mitchell should both have been 1st team squad imo, sadly Jonny now at Brentford)

So who is gonna make a team out of that lot? Need a magician more than a manager.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 08:53:42 AM

People wanting Pressley or Hughes back. Christ sake we did nothing under Pressley and did you not see the car crash that was Hughes at Raith Rovers? Starting strikers in goals and falling out with everyone. Theirs options like Hopkin and McIntyre I'd take before either of those clowns.

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Dade » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 09:35:17 AM

That’s a fair assessment John Markie.

Jones what do you mean about comments in training? I’ve not heard that chat!

Also what was the chat about that guy Olaf was Googling? Was there some rumour about him too?

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by rusty_nail » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 09:45:00 AM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 08:53:42 AM
People wanting Pressley or Hughes back. Christ sake we did nothing under Pressley and did you not see the car crash that was Hughes at Raith Rovers? Starting strikers in goals and falling out with everyone. Theirs options like Hopkin and McIntyre I'd take before either of those clowns.
I agree with you regarding Pressley as there are better candidates ahead of him.

However, with regard to Hughes I think too many are basing their opinion on one bad experience and disregarding all his other achievements. If permanent success is the criteria then no manager we could attract is good enough, McIntyre included as his Ross County team were dreadful at the point he was sacked hence why he's out of work.

As for the love-in for Hopkin I think it's pie-in-the-sky. He took Livingston up from the 'seaside' leagues as they're being called in some quarters and then got past a poor Dundee Utd and Ross County (who put two novices in charge after Coyle left) and then gave up a crack at the Premier League as he wanted a job closer to his family in England. That's not changed so why he'd now jump at the chance to join us bottom of the Championship is illogical.

It will probably be McIntyre as he was interviewed before and is still out of work but I think the fans and board would be cutting their noses of to spite themselves if they disregard Yogi based on 6 months at Raith.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Dade » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 10:24:04 AM

rusty_nail wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 09:45:00 AM
Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 08:53:42 AM
People wanting Pressley or Hughes back. Christ sake we did nothing under Pressley and did you not see the car crash that was Hughes at Raith Rovers? Starting strikers in goals and falling out with everyone. Theirs options like Hopkin and McIntyre I'd take before either of those clowns.
I agree with you regarding Pressley as there are better candidates ahead of him.

However, with regard to Hughes I think too many are basing their opinion on one bad experience and disregarding all his other achievements. If permanent success is the criteria then no manager we could attract is good enough, McIntyre included as his Ross County team were dreadful at the point he was sacked hence why he's out of work.

As for the love-in for Hopkin I think it's pie-in-the-sky. He took Livingston up from the 'seaside' leagues as they're being called in some quarters and then got past a poor Dundee Utd and Ross County (who put two novices in charge after Coyle left) and then gave up a crack at the Premier League as he wanted a job closer to his family in England. That's not changed so why he'd now jump at the chance to join us bottom of the Championship is illogical.

It will probably be McIntyre as he was interviewed before and is still out of work but I think the fans and board would be cutting their noses of to spite themselves if they disregard Yogi based on 6 months at Raith.
Minor correction- Livingston never played against Ross County, it was Partick so your 2 novices argument is null and void! Also talking about discounting success, you can’t on one hand talk about Yogi’s success being discounted then play down Hopkins achievement of getting Livingston promoted 2 seasons on the trot!

As for Yogi. I agree with you against the general feeling of discontent about him being a potential replacement. He done well for us, our most successful manager in fact. Took Hibs to 4th in the league which included a strong Rangers side. Done a decent job at Livingston and had a big upturn in results at Hartlepool but wasnt able to stave off relegation. Was Inverness’s most successful manager ever and well the least said about Raith the better.

The only thing against Hughes is all the baggage that comes with him and the fact he would probably still be off at the drop of a hat should a better job come up. His tippy tappy football also got a bit mundane although it’s certainly better than whatever kind of brand we’re trying to implement at the moment.

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Jim Holmes » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 10:44:13 AM

Robbie Neilson did absolutely skoosh this league with Hearts. Rangers and Hibs were in it as well
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Habib Utak Al Hansi » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 11:02:38 AM

The shouts for Hughes are beyond ludicrous. Spent us to the brink of bankruptcy and spent the last year of his time hear whoring himself about to any club with a management vacancy. Never had a good word to say about us since he left. Had one decent spell since then, a job he flounced out of when their board refused to sanction his wild spending plans. To top it all, he then gets Raith relegated by losing to an utterly rancid Brechin City.


There are some credible candidates out there. This posion isn't one of them. John Hughes now spouts utter s***e on Sportsound alongside various other desperados and has-beens, a job he is perfectly suited to.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by rusty_nail » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 11:13:10 AM

Dade wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 10:24:04 AM
...
Minor correction- Livingston never played against Ross County, it was Partick so your 2 novices argument is null and void! Also talking about discounting success, you can’t on one hand talk about Yogi’s success being discounted then play down Hopkins achievement of getting Livingston promoted 2 seasons on the trot!
...
I'll accept that mistake and thanks for the correction :thumbsup

I'm not discounting Hopkins success but I'd caveat that he gained promotion from League 1 and last seasons success could easily have been halted akin to ourselves against Kilmarnock had Partick got their act together.

Hamilton did it before when Hibs were complacent and took the drop so it is possible that the Premier team can be beaten not through any tactical/motivational genius but simply by underestimating the opposition. Something I'm afraid that Lee Clark patently did not do against us.

I just look at the field of potential candidates and none of their CVs stack up against Hughes.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by rusty_nail » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 11:23:22 AM

Habib Utak Al Hansi wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 11:02:38 AM
The shouts for Hughes are beyond ludicrous. Spent us to the brink of bankruptcy and spent the last year of his time hear whoring himself about to any club with a management vacancy. Never had a good word to say about us since he left. Had one decent spell since then, a job he flounced out of when their board refused to sanction his wild spending plans. To top it all, he then gets Raith relegated by losing to an utterly rancid Brechin City.


There are some credible candidates out there. This posion isn't one of them. John Hughes now spouts utter s***e on Sportsound alongside various other desperados and has-beens, a job he is perfectly suited to.
Cheerleading for Hughes here it seems but your post is the negative spin I regularly read on what could be interpreted as wanting to take the next step for Falkirk and make us a regular top-6 side at the time. I also don't think he should apologise for being ambitious and I wouldn't want a manager happy to rest on his laurels so why is that a perceived negative.

That it didn't work out at the same time as the TV deal went t*ts up did make for the perfect storm and did see us come too close to bankruptcy but clubs (not just ours) have learnt from that folly and I doubt it would be allowed to happen again.

I also think that unfortunately people turn off to the things he says because of the way he sounds rather than it being drivel. He's a pretty impassioned speaker and has ideas about how his teams should play which is better than the hit-and-hope philosophy of some in Scotland.

It's obvious where my money is but whoever comes in surely can't do worse than Hartley has this season.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Pete » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 12:11:30 PM

Hughes had a horrible habit of falling out with players. Would rather have someone with better man management skills to try and create a proper team spirit.

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Creative Redemption » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 12:29:30 PM

Maybe the players are not as bad as we think they are?
I don't think many of them were playing for Hartley from the off, realising quickly what a weird character he was.
That's not to say they are good, but they may play better under a different style of management and system.

Looking through the names stated, Robbie Neilson sticks out as a good candidate, but its slim pickings.
Jokingly I had said Latapy, but in our time of need, we really need to get someone with a track record (which Hartley actually had....) but is progressive.
Ian McColl may be an exciting thought, but does he really have the tactical nuance to take us forward? I dont actually think so, and why would he leave Ayr for us anyway.
Well done to the BoD. They took the gamble on Hartley which most of us throught was a sound move. They backed him 100%. They let him do what he thought was needed, and sacked him when it clearly wasnt working, so I don't quite understand the negativity towards them right now.
The only mistake I can see is this Scout down south. Was he actually vetted? I think not.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Pete » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 12:34:22 PM

Yeah I'd like to know who was in charge of signing the players. Did the scout have carte Blanche or did Hartley have the final say???

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 12:44:23 PM

I can't see past Robbie Neilson. He'd be my first choice and let's forget about the Hearts connection as that argument is boring. We gave him his first job in coaching and he excelled at Hearts. I think he's the best available.

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Kiddy » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 02:26:31 PM

I wonder how much staff we currently have on 'Gardening Leave'?
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Pete » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:02:39 PM

Sportsound has McCall and Hughes on. Points of notes

- Applications already received from throughout uk and Europe
- Hughes rules himself out
- McCall did not rule himself out, could easily have said no but didn't

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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by rusty_nail » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:31:12 PM

Pete wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:02:39 PM
Sportsound has McCall and Hughes on. Points of notes

- Applications already received from throughout uk and Europe
- Hughes rules himself out
- McCall did not rule himself out, could easily have said no but didn't
Heard that as well :(

I also took an inference that he believes the lack of football acumen at board level is problematic and I can understand why he’s distanced himself from it.

Onto the next ...
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Kiddy » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:41:02 PM

rusty_nail wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:31:12 PM
Pete wrote:
Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:02:39 PM
Sportsound has McCall and Hughes on. Points of notes

- Applications already received from throughout uk and Europe
- Hughes rules himself out
- McCall did not rule himself out, could easily have said no but didn't
Heard that as well :(

I also took an inference that he believes the lack of football acumen at board level is problematic and I can understand why he’s distanced himself from it.

Onto the next ...
Could infer his lack of football acumen being problematic. As he ditched his trust in the youth system & recruited Dad's army!
The rest, as they say, is history.
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Re: Hartley’s gone

Post by Ricey » Tuesday 28th 2018f August 2018 07:42:23 PM

Club have requested permission to speak to McCall and this has been granted. McCall unsure whether he would accept as he was treated poorly in his eyes on a previous occasion when he thought the job was his.

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