No more academy?

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Re: No more academy?

Post by kent brockman » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 09:57:06 AM

I would hope that when we get back to the SPL, we will reinstate the FALKIRK ACADEMY.

Instead of being at Stirling University, I would like to see it based at Little Kerse, in the heart of our local community.
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Re: No more academy?

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 10:38:56 AM

I think everyone wants to see us back in the top flight asap but to me we still havent been given one reason why the fact that we're stuck in this league is all to do with the academy. For one thing we perhaps wouldnt have a club if it hadnt been for the players brought through and sold over the past few years and secondly if people are willing to pay for the academy why in gods name would anyone be stupid enough to knock it back.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by stupac07 » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 04:31:39 PM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 10:38:56 AM
I think everyone wants to see us back in the top flight asap but to me we still havent been given one reason why the fact that we're stuck in this league is all to do with the academy. For one thing we perhaps wouldnt have a club if it hadnt been for the players brought through and sold over the past few years and secondly if people are willing to pay for the academy why in gods name would anyone be stupid enough to knock it back.
I might be wrong here but I can't recall the club ever stating that the academy is the sole reason for us not being in the top flight? Did they not just say that all resources, inc academy funding, from now on will be put in to the first team to help us get to the PL?

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 05:29:32 PM

stupac07 wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 04:31:39 PM
Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 10:38:56 AM
I think everyone wants to see us back in the top flight asap but to me we still havent been given one reason why the fact that we're stuck in this league is all to do with the academy. For one thing we perhaps wouldnt have a club if it hadnt been for the players brought through and sold over the past few years and secondly if people are willing to pay for the academy why in gods name would anyone be stupid enough to knock it back.
I might be wrong here but I can't recall the club ever stating that the academy is the sole reason for us not being in the top flight? Did they not just say that all resources, inc academy funding, from now on will be put in to the first team to help us get to the PL?
But the academy has been bringing in a lot more cash than we were having to put into it though so why dump it. Plus circa 50-80k isnt going to make a large bit of difference in the grand scheme of things anyway. To me its decisions at managment and bod level that have cost us not the academy and there was no reason why this season we couldnt have gone up with the budget Houston was given and keeping the academy if Houston hadnt made such an arse of it. Its crazy dumping a project that is bringing in over 100k a year.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Ricey » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 05:59:28 PM

And now the exodus of u20 team begins with Scotland u17 international Connor McBride off to Celtic. Assume that Johnny Mitchell will also be sold as we have no place for these guys next season as they aren’t quite first team ready. It’s really beginning to get me angry the utter mess bungling fools Lang and Campbell are making. I had hoped we would have loaned them out whilst they developed as both are talents.

We have and are continuing to sell the family silver. I half expect Craig Campbell to remove a mask to uncover jim leishman underneath.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 06:36:40 PM

And Lang could be George Craig. Cant wait for the great reveal.'If it hadn't been for those pesky fans'

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Re: No more academy?

Post by gruezi ffc » Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 07:16:48 PM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 06:36:40 PM
And Lang could be George Craig. Cant wait for the great reveal.'If it hadn't been for those pesky fans'
......and we are still waiting for Doug Henderson’s resignation. The whole BoD are strangling this club. Just as well Hartley has us playing decently, or otherwise the masses really would be up in arms.
Come the revolution......George will be first against the wall :D

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 31st 2018f January 2018 07:48:55 AM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 05:29:32 PM
stupac07 wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 04:31:39 PM
Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 10:38:56 AM
I think everyone wants to see us back in the top flight asap but to me we still havent been given one reason why the fact that we're stuck in this league is all to do with the academy. For one thing we perhaps wouldnt have a club if it hadnt been for the players brought through and sold over the past few years and secondly if people are willing to pay for the academy why in gods name would anyone be stupid enough to knock it back.
I might be wrong here but I can't recall the club ever stating that the academy is the sole reason for us not being in the top flight? Did they not just say that all resources, inc academy funding, from now on will be put in to the first team to help us get to the PL?
But the academy has been bringing in a lot more cash than we were having to put into it though so why dump it. Plus circa 50-80k isnt going to make a large bit of difference in the grand scheme of things anyway. To me its decisions at managment and bod level that have cost us not the academy and there was no reason why this season we couldnt have gone up with the budget Houston was given and keeping the academy if Houston hadnt made such an arse of it. Its crazy dumping a project that is bringing in over 100k a year.
See this is where I think your wrong unless you have concrete proof to back up what you are saying. The academy was clearly not making the money/profit you are saying it did, there is no way the club would decide to scrap it if it was returning so much money as that money could be used to go into the first team. The club may have idiots at the top but when have you ever known them to drop something that was making them money? It defies logic and clearly there is a lot more going on in terms of cost than what you or any one of us know about. You just need to look at the players brought in on loan from Sunderland & Watford along with mutually agreeing the end of several contracts, do you think that comes cheap? We obviously have immediate funds available due to the scrapping of the academy. That makes logical sense to me and I’m a bit concerned about anyone who seriously thinks otherwise. Do I agree with the scrapping of the academy? No, but I see it as a means to an end. Get promoted and it returns. Short term sacrifice for hopefully a long term game.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Wednesday 31st 2018f January 2018 09:54:11 AM

The academy has brought in an average of 200k a year that is a fact . Kingsley made us 750k all told and Mcgrandles 500k so theres 1.2million for starters on two playres. Even if you ignore the cash raised for the academy by AT thats still a 100k profit a year on the cost to the club. Christ people have even offered to pay to keep the academy going for the next few years which would mean no cost to the club and yet their still binning it. This is the actions of two clowns at the head of the club who have no idea about football but want to be seen to be doing something to try and keep their posts. Yes the whole thing defies logic especially as we're still reaping the benefits with the sales of Gallacher and McBride and Dunne on trial at Blackburn.

Surely even you can see that 200k from Gallachers sale to Liverpool will cover any costs quite substantially. Certainly more than the peanuts we gained from shelving the academy.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by stupac07 » Wednesday 31st 2018f January 2018 10:00:20 AM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 05:29:32 PM
stupac07 wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 04:31:39 PM
Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Tuesday 30th 2018f January 2018 10:38:56 AM
I think everyone wants to see us back in the top flight asap but to me we still havent been given one reason why the fact that we're stuck in this league is all to do with the academy. For one thing we perhaps wouldnt have a club if it hadnt been for the players brought through and sold over the past few years and secondly if people are willing to pay for the academy why in gods name would anyone be stupid enough to knock it back.
I might be wrong here but I can't recall the club ever stating that the academy is the sole reason for us not being in the top flight? Did they not just say that all resources, inc academy funding, from now on will be put in to the first team to help us get to the PL?
But the academy has been bringing in a lot more cash than we were having to put into it though so why dump it. Plus circa 50-80k isnt going to make a large bit of difference in the grand scheme of things anyway. To me its decisions at managment and bod level that have cost us not the academy and there was no reason why this season we couldnt have gone up with the budget Houston was given and keeping the academy if Houston hadnt made such an arse of it. Its crazy dumping a project that is bringing in over 100k a year.
What was the actual cost to the club for running the academy? I have no idea genuine question. Also from the players we have sold from it have any of them broken the £1m or £500k mark? I agree the BOD/former management and poor handling of the club are the reasons we are not in the PL but that's nothing to do with the academy is it? Surly the focus has to be on promotion, hence the academy has been binned. As much as I don't agree with it I feel the decision has been made and we need to move on. Also someone mentioned some of the boys have already signed for other clubs that could have happened anyway as none of the graduates had to sign for Falkirk at then end of their term.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Ricey » Wednesday 31st 2018f January 2018 10:48:21 AM

The actual cost of running the academy to Falkirk was £100k -£140k depending on the year. That is fact from several sources and the accounts themselves.

The £200k I am assuming was the cost of the u20s which would have been done away with anyway and still has the cost now. I believe Falkirk paid the academy money in stages so assume no more than £50k was due now. So that is the only short term additional cash freed up at a maximum.

The fact u18 level was being introduced should have been good news for us in that it gave us an extra year to develop the players in the cheaper academy set up. We then could have signed full time only the very best (we won’t have reserve team remember) and popped them on loan to non league clubs as they developed whilst training full time with us.

This would have still saved us about the same amount of money as we had independent funding in place to run the academy.

The only negative I can see is that with project brave in 3 years time there might be a further cull on academy’s and given we wouldn’t have been putting more money in we would have been a likely victim but 3 years is along time in football and things change.

One further point is that Falkirk got their pick of all players at the academy as all were signed Falkirk players. Stenny got whomever was left. Yes players could opt to sign elsewhere but we would be due comp as we would have in all previous years since year dot

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Wednesday 31st 2018f January 2018 10:49:58 AM

The total saving from the academy and u20s was to be circa 350k. 100k odd was the academy with the rest being the u20s. As I said previously AT's dinner contributed 50k towards this every season. As I also said we have received around 750k in total for Stephen Kingsley and McGrandles went for around 500k. Add to that smaller fees for the likes of Blair, Biabi, Gallacher and Arfield etc and your looking at over 2 million pounds brought in plus we had the benefit of the likes of Sibbald and Alston in our first team for a number of years. Its pure madness to bin it and its sad that when you hear the fans singing Craig Sibbald he's 'one of our own' you now have to think whether we will ever be able to sing that about another player again.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Olaf Thom » Friday 02nd 2018f February 2018 03:05:53 PM

If we didn't have an academy or a lazy bones Manager in Houston, We might have signed more players like Will Vaulks, Lyle Taylor, Luke Leahy and yes Tommy Robson.

Signing the best 1st team ready Academy rejects from England, is better than having our own Academy. we have a reputation for giving young players a chance and not standing in their way. The sales of Vaulks and Taylor show almost as much cash could be made this way and we could see more good players and a decent successful team.
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Re: No more academy?

Post by Ricey » Friday 02nd 2018f February 2018 04:33:03 PM

Lyle Taylor is a good example and so too appears Tommy Robson. Vaulks and Leahy would not be considered in the new strategy as both were signed with a view to developing into first team players. Going forward they need to be ready to go from day one which means the players will probably be that bit older around the 23 mark like Robson is. The money received for the players you mention was also much lower than for the younger players. With premiership teams having ever increasing amounts of money to spend on youth players and academy costs staying stagnant we make the move to scrap ours. Going forward the real. Money is in 18 year olds who the real top clubs think could make their first team. If Gallagher had done well for us we would have got seven figures easy.

No matter how well Robson does for us we will never get a huge fee for him because of his rejection by Sunderland his age and the level he is playing at. We will however get a cracking wee player but my main gripe is why not have both when the option was there?

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Olaf Thom » Friday 02nd 2018f February 2018 07:42:17 PM

We don’t know what is planned, I know Hartley said he wants a first team squad of 18 with youngsters making up the rest.
I assume the youngsters have to play somewhere and Wyldes title is development manager

Having an Academy is a risk, So is this new plan - we cannot afford to take two risks.
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Re: No more academy?

Post by Ricey » Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 10:55:17 AM

Hartley said that when we had the academy. The reason we sold Mcbride is because we have nowhere to play youngsters next season. I am desperately hoping we hang on to young Mitchell and loan him out somewhere. It could be that we have a couple of the current youngsters in that boat and Wyldey will monitor their progress. This can only be a short term thing however as what youngster is going to sign for Falkirk unless given assurances they will be in the first team squad.

I also don’t agree with the academy being a risk. Tell me Olaf how a free academy with funding in place for 3 years is a risk?

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Re: No more academy?

Post by AL_bairn » Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 11:33:28 AM

It's probably been posted but I like the article below about us closing the academy. There will be a lot of hidden costs running an academy that we don't know about. If we pick up some gems released by other academies to play in the first team like Robson then we will be stronger on the park for it.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... m-11729108

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Re: No more academy?

Post by havenbairn » Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 12:47:32 PM

AL_bairn wrote:
Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 11:33:28 AM
It's probably been posted but I like the article below about us closing the academy. There will be a lot of hidden costs running an academy that we don't know about. If we pick up some gems released by other academies to play in the first team like Robson then we will be stronger on the park for it.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... m-11729108
That article was written on 21st December by a guy who knows nothing about the running of our Academy.

If you want the facts read Jamie Swinney`s excellent article in the Falkirk Herald this week.

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Re: No more academy?

Post by AL_bairn » Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 12:52:22 PM

havenbairn wrote:
Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 12:47:32 PM
AL_bairn wrote:
Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 11:33:28 AM
It's probably been posted but I like the article below about us closing the academy. There will be a lot of hidden costs running an academy that we don't know about. If we pick up some gems released by other academies to play in the first team like Robson then we will be stronger on the park for it.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... m-11729108
That article was written on 21st December by a guy who knows nothing about the running of our Academy.

If you want the facts read Jamie Swinney`s excellent article in the Falkirk Herald this week.
Is the article online or just in the paper?

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Re: No more academy?

Post by Olaf Thom » Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 03:00:31 PM

havenbairn wrote:
Saturday 03rd 2018f February 2018 12:47:32 PM


That article was written on 21st December by a guy who knows nothing about the running of our Academy.

If you want the facts read Jamie Swinney`s excellent article in the Falkirk Herald this week.
I read the article and...... Well he would say that, wouldn’t he! Sprung to mind.
Last year those in the Know were saying there was a dearth of talent in the Academy, the current development squad are near the bottom of the table.

Take away Sibbald and Arfield. Who broke through over 5 years go - how many goals has the academy produced for the first team?
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