Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

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Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by rusty_nail » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 01:31:23 PM

Having noticed that the ICT Challenge cup game was completely ignored and the O'Hara debacle has consumed the forum it will be good (probably not) to get back to football this weekend.

Hopefully Hartley can finally mastermind a win but with their new man Laszlo in charge also looking to impress this one will be difficult :(
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Creative Redemption » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 04:54:12 PM

The initial hope I had that Hartley would find the magic formula and we would start winning and climbing the league is slowly ebbing away.
Its not that I have lost hope in Hartley, its just the reality kicking in that you can put glitter on a turd, but at the end of the day, its still a turd. He cant make these players do any better than they are doing. They just are not up for the fight.
I'm beginning to just write this season off and just hope he can get us mid table and comfortable to have a good go next season. (Our Time - Mark 2)
I honestly thought we could get back in to contention for the play offs when he came in, but with the gutless wonders playing, and Loy firing currently on 0 cylinders, we are only going to win the odd scrappy game, and draw plenty, with losses thrown in for good measure.
We dont even look like the players have it in them to turn the corner, so on that basis im going for a comfortable 3:1 victory to Utd, with probably Hypolite or McKee scoring for us. (the only two even remotely capable of doing so).
Here comes the doom.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Ranaldo Bairn » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 05:23:29 PM

0-2 defeat and nobody will be in the least bit surprised or bothered.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Bridge of Allan Bairn » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:00:23 PM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 04:54:12 PM
The initial hope I had that Hartley would find the magic formula and we would start winning and climbing the league is slowly ebbing away.
Its not that I have lost hope in Hartley, its just the reality kicking in that you can put glitter on a turd, but at the end of the day, its still a turd. He cant make these players do any better than they are doing. They just are not up for the fight.
I'm beginning to just write this season off and just hope he can get us mid table and comfortable to have a good go next season. (Our Time - Mark 2)
I honestly thought we could get back in to contention for the play offs when he came in, but with the gutless wonders playing, and Loy firing currently on 0 cylinders, we are only going to win the odd scrappy game, and draw plenty, with losses thrown in for good measure.
We dont even look like the players have it in them to turn the corner, so on that basis im going for a comfortable 3:1 victory to Utd, with probably Hypolite or McKee scoring for us. (the only two even remotely capable of doing so).
good post and pretty much sums up my thoughts. I very much doubt I'll get caught up in the ourtime 2 marketing next year and will likely pay at the gate based on attitude and performances so that might be 0 or the full 18. the £500 I spent this year has been about the worst I've ever spent.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Olaf Thom » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:24:14 PM

A draw at best, we cannot score from open play.

Midfield is honking and our main forwards Austin and Loy are lazy pathetic sods, who should be hunted from the club.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Sir Jones » Friday 17th 2017f November 2017 08:47:17 AM

Myself and others were laughed at by some for saying this season would be a complete write off back in January. The squad is muck. The only positive is that Hartley is moving folk out on loan quite quickly and shown other glimpses that he's not happy with the squad. At least he can see what Houston could not.

Couldn't really give a sh1t about this game. I'll probably watch on FTV while doing something else.

It pains me to say this but our "big" games are on the 16th/23rd with Brechin at home and Dumbarton away. An absolute shambles that this is the case.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Jarvis the Ginger General » Saturday 18th 2017f November 2017 02:10:29 AM

Sir Jones wrote:
Friday 17th 2017f November 2017 08:47:17 AM
Myself and others were laughed at by some for saying this season would be a complete write off back in January. The squad is muck. The only positive is that Hartley is moving folk out on loan quite quickly and shown other glimpses that he's not happy with the squad. At least he can see what Houston could not.

Couldn't really give a sh1t about this game. I'll probably watch on FTV while doing something else.

It pains me to say this but our "big" games are on the 16th/23rd with Brechin at home and Dumbarton away. An absolute shambles that this is the case.
I agree - I have already written this game off. This squad will get 7th or 8th at best - we are dismal, full of mid table crap like Harris, Watson and Craigen. As long as we steer clear of the play offs, we need to let Hartley have a mass clearout. I would like to see at least 10+ players being moved on at end of season. Lets get back to signing hungry youngsters or players who want to get back to the big time - no more signings from Raith or QOS who see Falkirk as the pinnacle of their career.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Duncan Freemason » Saturday 18th 2017f November 2017 05:01:06 PM

No dead cat bounce is possible when the cat in question is already six feet under.

We all know now that the damage Houstie inflicted on the club was (this time) not exaggerated by Olaf Thom. He called it correctly.
There is no way Hartley can turn this collection of misfits into a side that will win every second game or so. The players are either not good enough, or not good enough consistently, or are good enough and want to be somewhere else, or are good enough but have no heart. Only a small handul (like Taiwo) don't fit into any of the above groups.
I think we all have to back Hartley's judgement, as he's likely to dump players who not so long ago were real heroes (yes Rory Loy, sadly I am looking at you).
I don't think sentiment will colour Hartley's judgement. I reckon he learned a lot at Alloa, and even more at Dundee, and is desperate to prove he can build yet another committed and competitive team.
Trouble is, it's going to take time, and we need to understand that. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to unload 80% of the first team squad, and let's be honest, it's been crying out to be done for a good while now.
This season is dead in the water. The name of the game is seventh or eight. Next season, who knows.......maybe even winning the first game of the season in a dozen years just might be possible.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Habib Utak Al Hansi » Saturday 18th 2017f November 2017 07:36:00 PM

Duncan Freemason wrote:
Saturday 18th 2017f November 2017 05:01:06 PM
No dead cat bounce is possible when the cat in question is already six feet under.

We all know now that the damage Houstie inflicted on the club was (this time) not exaggerated by Olaf Thom. He called it correctly.
There is no way Hartley can turn this collection of misfits into a side that will win every second game or so. The players are either not good enough, or not good enough consistently, or are good enough and want to be somewhere else, or are good enough but have no heart. Only a small handul (like Taiwo) don't fit into any of the above groups.
I think we all have to back Hartley's judgement, as he's likely to dump players who not so long ago were real heroes (yes Rory Loy, sadly I am looking at you).
I don't think sentiment will colour Hartley's judgement. I reckon he learned a lot at Alloa, and even more at Dundee, and is desperate to prove he can build yet another committed and competitive team.
Trouble is, it's going to take time, and we need to understand that. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to unload 80% of the first team squad, and let's be honest, it's been crying out to be done for a good while now.
This season is dead in the water. The name of the game is seventh or eight. Next season, who knows.......maybe even winning the first game of the season in a dozen years just might be possible.
Agreed. On paper it's a decent squad, certainly in relation to our current league position, but our performances for the best part of eighteen months have, outwith a handful of exceptions, been nowhere near good enough.

I hoped Hartley would have had a bit more of an impact, even something like trying Muirhead at c/h alongside McGhee would have been refreshing after the intransigence of Houston.Instead they are stuck at full back and we're still being subjected to dross like Watson. But no judgement can be made until he gets his own players. I struggle to think of one player I would be genuinely sorry to see the back of, including so-called favourites like Hippolyte and Taiwo. None of them are performing, so good riddance to as many as we can get shot of.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Olaf Thom » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 07:09:45 PM

Absolutely disgusting!

Beginning to wonder about Hartley, how can he think Harris is anything other than bench warmer.
Lack of fight all over the pitch, lack of ANYTHING in midfield, what is the point of Longridge? What does he bring to team?

Getting beat at Tannadice isn’t a shock, but not even compete is sickening. How long To we see a goal from Open play?

Questions need asked about Loy and Sibbald, rumours are Sibbald has a injury but it’s an injury he managed in the past, but he refuses to do it for us anymore but had he moved, he’d have declared himself fit and played for a new club. Loy has to be the most disappointing signing for many a year.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by kent brockman » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 08:04:09 PM

Just back from Dundee and I have to say that 3-0 was not a true reflection of the game.

It could have been 6-0.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by rusty_nail » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 10:47:29 PM

Olaf Thom wrote:
Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 07:09:45 PM

Beginning to wonder about Hartley, …
I know it's still early in his tenure and he hasn't even had a window to bring in his guys but I don't think he's got the answers either.

The squad has shown very little improvement and there hasn't been a change in style to affect an up-turn. Getting more out of the current squad would have been high on the boards criteria and he's failing.

I last saw us against Dunfermline and said at half-time we weren't any better under Hartley.

For periods of that game we were ponderous and one-dimensional. Dunfermlines implosion and our equaliser papered over a poor display up to then. Time is running out before it becomes a straight shoot-out between us and Brechin. I'm not even including Dumbarton as if this form continues they could be comfortable above the play-off spot.

That is the predicament we find ourselves :cry:
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by AL_bairn » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 11:19:40 PM

Well pretty grim situation all round. Hartley will hopefully be given plenty of time to get things right and have a mass clear out.

We need Sibbald back. I've been told good things about the work he has done in the gym preparing for his return and will be back better than ever. He is only a few weeks away from returning and is raring to go. My god we need him!

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Duncan Freemason » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 02:10:39 AM

Look, we know we are rank rotten. Hartley ain't daft, and he knows full well it's not about shifting a few pieces around the chess board, and performances will come.
He has inherited a bunch of players who really don't want to take responsibility for anything, and be it a mix of personalities or whatever, they clearly have no collective work ethic. Most of them need to find new clubs at the earliest opportunity.
I firmly believe Hartley will get our house in order, but I think many of us are underestimating just how badly Houston had done in terms of recruitment.
Make no mistake, this has all the hallmarks of Totten's last season, and relegation is a very real possibility. We can all see that the majority of the team dont care, and were beaten today before the game even kicked off.
This is a collection of players who clearly don't like one another very much. Hartley is only going to fix it by getting rid of them, and I think that is what he is concentrating on, as he clearly grasps that positional and tactical changes don't mean a thing to our players. It will make no difference whatsoever as they just aren't up for it.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Sir Jones » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 07:46:55 AM

As much as I rate Sibbald I think a few of us are expecting too much from him this time around. It'll be interesting to see how he performs when back from injury. It's a big test for him actually in terms of desire and commitment. There is an awful lot resting on his and Taiwo's shoulders right now but anything to keep two of yesterday's jokers out the team is a good thing.

It'll be 18 months in before I pass serious judgement on Hartley. He has been left an almighty mess to fix. I got the sense yesterday that he's likely made it clear to majority of the squad that he doesn't think they are good enough and will be shipped out in January if possible. That's what I hope drove performances like yesterday as there was little professional about it.

Best of our players was easily the keeper. Made some fantastic saves.
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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Dade » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 11:06:58 AM

I think the only thing that is slightly annoying about Hartley is that he’s still trying to discover our best team.
You may say we don’t have one but I still think there are better options available than some of the teams and formations that Hartley has been putting out. Muirhead continually playing right back is one bug bear as is the continued use of 35 year old Mark Kerr in the centre of midfield. I know folk have said he’s had a couple of good games but for a team that badly needs goals and badly needs to stop the other team from scoring, he doesn’t help either. Taiwo coming back will only help if Kerr is dropped and I get little impression that won’t happen.

I’d just like to see a bit of a revamp to our shape. I’d even consider Kerr as a sweeper in a back 3 a bit like McCall did with Scott McKenzie. That way he can start us off on the right foot with some calm and controlled passing.

Anyway it’s early days for Hartley and he definitely needs time but playing the same formation and largely the same personnel as Houston did isn’t helping and it should be no surprise that results are still lacking.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by Pete » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 11:14:03 AM

An utterly shameful performance. I wouldn't be disappointed to see any of these wasters go.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by ellonbairn » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 02:23:25 PM

Pete wrote:
Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 11:14:03 AM
An utterly shameful performance. I wouldn't be disappointed to see any of these wasters go.
Yes agree. Only Thomson gets pass marks for me. Played like a team already resigned to relegation.

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by JaxinFalkirk » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 02:56:58 PM

Having spent Saturday afternoon enduring a woeful performance from the Swans at Burnley I foolishly decided in a moment of masochistic madness to trek up to tanndadice yesterday............by the way what a shambles of a ground that is with no proper steps up to covered terracing, inadequate toilet facilities and a tenner for the grandson!!!!!

As for the game LESS IS DEFINITELY NOT MORE with our current squad of players:

GUTLESS
CLUELESS
HEARTLESS
MINDLESS
HOPELESS

How can we go through 90 mins and never put a tackle in beggars belief and I echo the sentiments that based on yesterday's performance the vast majority are taking a salary under false pretences!!!!

Whilst I respect that it's early days for PH number two I couldn't quite fathom why it took 45 mins to ditch the one up front or why when Kidd was on the bench we didn't just put him on as direct replacement for Gallacher. I also seriously question what LL has brought since signing from Hamilton and surely he will go back at end of his emergency loan in early January.

Not a great weekend from a footie perspective but hey it's only a game.......... :hammer:

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Re: Dundee Utd v Falkirk *SUNDAY* 19th November

Post by rusty_nail » Tuesday 21st 2017f November 2017 02:00:30 PM

Having now watched the 'highlights' of the game confirming what a spectacularly inept and gutless performance that was I am glad I didn't waste time and money going to Tannadice! :shakehead:

Without exaggeration, it is evident from the footage that the players knew they were beaten before a ball was kicked on Sunday. They don't even need the in-depth video analysis that they will no doubt have had this week as the FTV coverage is a video nasty in itself - no energy, awareness or determination on show in just over 5 minutes out of the whole game.

There are countless examples in it where our midfield and defence allow DU to run unhindered into goal scoring positions and as said by others, the only player to take any credit was Thomson.

I really fear for us against Morton on Saturday unless they get their act together :(
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