Kevin O`Hara

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Dade
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 12:37:12 AM

grumpyoldman wrote:
Wednesday 15th 2017f November 2017 08:38:27 PM
There are a couple of deaf and dumb boys in the south stand.
Does that mean Higginbotham cupping his ears during his goal celebration
could be construed as mocking their disability.

I really doubt it, but I’m sure some of the PC brigade could find mileage in it.
If he went directly up to the deaf person and done it knowing fine well they were deaf then yes it would count. Until then it's not the same as Kevin O'Hara's case so let's not try to dilute it by pretending it was a mild offence that was taken the wrong way. He directly abused Shiels because he had lost an eye.

Also lets not mix ageism with racism or abusing disabled people and homophobia. Abuse is not just abuse and let's not pretend otherwise. There are definite degrees of acceptability and what O'Hara did was completely unacceptable.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Sir Jones » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:20 AM

Completely unacceptable to you and the SFA - but not unacceptable to me and others. In any case, its the SFA who hold the rule book so just got to live with it. Much like Brexit I suppose.

A ridiculous ban has been imposed and one almighty can of worms opened for future. It's quite right to question whether there is grounds to take things to the SFA on ageism, weight issues, any sort of body shape abuse (better watch when calling someone a lanky streak of piss now), etc. Where does it end? Nobody knows! If this PC route is the road we're going down then I want Dunfermline fined for their fans making monkey gestures at Hippo during the cup game!

But if any truth to Conrad reacting on Saturday then I'd look to turf him out the club too. It would firmly put him in the "sh1te bag" category for me.
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by dixie chicken » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 10:40:09 AM

God, this thread is so revealing.
No wonder this country is full of so many useless idiots.
Is this what they teach them at University?
The critical point here is that, as somebody mentioned, this guy is a fully fit professional footballer who happens to have one eye. Not really a big deal.
What a crazy world!!!!!

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by rusty_nail » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 10:40:52 AM

Sir Jones wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:20 AM
... But if any truth to Conrad reacting on Saturday then I'd look to turf him out the club too. It would firmly put him in the "sh1te bag" category for me.
Is that you discriminating between the sh1te-baggers and non-sh1te baggers? The current squad should all be in the former category currently!
Contemplating the future of One F in Falkirk

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 11:28:16 AM

Sir Jones wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:20 AM
Completely unacceptable to you and the SFA - but not unacceptable to me and others. In any case, its the SFA who hold the rule book so just got to live with it. Much like Brexit I suppose.

A ridiculous ban has been imposed and one almighty can of worms opened for future. It's quite right to question whether there is grounds to take things to the SFA on ageism, weight issues, any sort of body shape abuse (better watch when calling someone a lanky streak of piss now), etc. Where does it end? Nobody knows! If this PC route is the road we're going down then I want Dunfermline fined for their fans making monkey gestures at Hippo during the cup game!

But if any truth to Conrad reacting on Saturday then I'd look to turf him out the club too. It would firmly put him in the "sh1te bag" category for me.
Sorry Jones but it’s ridiculous to suggest that a can of worms is being opened because our player has been done with abusing someone’s disability. There’s good reason that the 4 categories in hate crime are racism, sexual orientation, religion and disability. Fat people, old people, tall people aren’t quite the same.

Dixie- I obviously know where you stand but I think it’s good that we consider these things and draw lines on what’s acceptable. Yes the PC thing can go too far but in this instance it’s wrong.

Again, try looking at it from the perspective of the victim. If you happen to have lost an eye or limb and are ok with strangers abusing you about it then I can’t argue with that.

The only thing that could be contested is the length of the ban.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 02:25:10 PM

I think when giving someone a bit of abuse gets an 8 game ban and yet sticking the head in someone only gets a 3 game that there is definitely something wrong surely.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Ranaldo Bairn » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 04:00:37 PM

Sir Jones wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:20 AM
Completely unacceptable to you and the SFA - but not unacceptable to me and others. In any case, its the SFA who hold the rule book so just got to live with it. Much like Brexit I suppose.

A ridiculous ban has been imposed and one almighty can of worms opened for future. It's quite right to question whether there is grounds to take things to the SFA on ageism, weight issues, any sort of body shape abuse (better watch when calling someone a lanky streak of piss now), etc. Where does it end? Nobody knows! If this PC route is the road we're going down then I want Dunfermline fined for their fans making monkey gestures at Hippo during the cup game!

But if any truth to Conrad reacting on Saturday then I'd look to turf him out the club too. It would firmly put him in the "sh1te bag" category for me.
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 04:16:23 PM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 02:25:10 PM
I think when giving someone a bit of abuse gets an 8 game ban and yet sticking the head in someone only gets a 3 game that there is definitely something wrong surely.
That’s a different argument and you may have a point however I’m saying abusing a persons disability is unacceptable and deserving of a ban.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Tristan Farnon » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 06:45:39 PM

It's not so much about what O'Hara said or how he gestured - as far as I can tell from various reports neither the referee nor the assistant heard or saw anything wrong at the time - for me it's all to do with the way Shiels and Dunfermline as a "club" reacted afterwards. To go crying to the ref to tell tales after the heat of the moment had died down smacks of petty vendettas and immaturity. A more mature way of dealing with the situation, if so much feeling had been generated by O'Hara, would have been to seek him out after the game and asked him to apologise directly to Shiels; had he done that willingly (which by some accounts he has done anyway) then that should have been the end of it. But no, clearly there was a bigger prize at stake - that of shaming O'Hara publically and dragging the name of Falkirk FC through the mud, and lo and behold, the mighty SFA were there to assist them every step of the way. Shame on them and Dunfermline - they will however reap what they sew some time in future.

Now we have McKee. Today's "Hearing" probably went along the lines of, "Mr, he called ma da' a wee stinker". McKee "Naw ah didnae", "yes you did", naw ah didnae" etc etc. They ran out of time and now need to reconvene. Oh dear, how do they deal with that I wonder, someone challenging their almighty superiority with absolutely no evidence either way.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Olaf Thom » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:04 PM

This Shiels is a horrible grass!

I don't even thinks he meets the criteria in the equality act
If you are registered as blind or partially sighted, then you automatically meet the Equality Act’s definition of a disabled person
I doubt he is registered, would have huge implication on insurance, being able to drive etc...
If you are not registered, then you might still qualify if your sight loss has a “substantial and long-term effect on your ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”.
Before he had his eye removed, he played football after he had his eye removed, he plays football

and
If you have lost the sight in one of your eyes, your ophthalmologist will not be able to certify you as sight impaired or severely sight impaired unless you have significant sight loss in your other eye. This is because your other eye will largely compensate for the loss of sight in the affected eye.
from here http://www.rnib.org.uk/eye-health/regis ... tification

Losing one eye, is like losing one kidney and they certainly aren't registered disabled and if a player had one kidney and another called him a one kidney bugger or Kidney Devine - Nothing would happen.
Therefore its an appearance issue and should be ranked alongside abusing someone with a crooked nose, no teeth or bald. Not ranked the same as Racism, Bigotry and sectarianism.
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 09:08:37 PM

Olaf Thom wrote:
Thursday 16th 2017f November 2017 08:21:04 PM
This Shiels is a horrible grass!

I don't even thinks he meets the criteria in the equality act
If you are registered as blind or partially sighted, then you automatically meet the Equality Act’s definition of a disabled person
I doubt he is registered, would have huge implication on insurance, being able to drive etc...
If you are not registered, then you might still qualify if your sight loss has a “substantial and long-term effect on your ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”.
Before he had his eye removed, he played football after he had his eye removed, he plays football

and
If you have lost the sight in one of your eyes, your ophthalmologist will not be able to certify you as sight impaired or severely sight impaired unless you have significant sight loss in your other eye. This is because your other eye will largely compensate for the loss of sight in the affected eye.
from here http://www.rnib.org.uk/eye-health/regis ... tification

Losing one eye, is like losing one kidney and they certainly aren't registered disabled and if a player had one kidney and another called him a one kidney bugger or Kidney Devine - Nothing would happen.
Therefore its an appearance issue and should be ranked alongside abusing someone with a crooked nose, no teeth or bald. Not ranked the same as Racism, Bigotry and sectarianism.
You know this is the first time where Ive considered you to actually make an intelligent argument to a topic and to be honest I do get what you’re saying.

Tristan’s point is also very valid with the way Dunfermline have reacted and I can’t disagree with that too much either. Apparently when Hippolyte got done for diving the Dunfermline players were having a go at Austin in a case of mistaken identity which is in itself unconsciously racist at worst. We didn’t make much of that.

I can only say that in my opinion had I lost an eye as a child or adult then I’d imagine that it would be a very traumatic experience and not one that I’d take too kindly about being abused about. I wouldn’t put losing a kidney on the same lines and things like crooked noses can be fixed but good point anyway. If you had a crooked nose and lost an eye then you’d be able to rank which you didn’t mind getting abused about and I’d imagine you’d feel far more insulted if it was the latter.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Livingston Par » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 12:00:48 AM

But if any truth to Conrad reacting on Saturday then I'd look to turf him out the club too. It would firmly put him in the "sh1te bag" category for me.
[/quote]

Good job you don't get to make decisions on behalf of FFC then eh?

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Livingston Par » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 12:02:21 AM

kennyboy wrote:
Wednesday 15th 2017f November 2017 11:00:45 AM
People should remember we are not in a real work environment when it comes to footballers .They are like kids. According to what was said there is not a lot between ( your for the high jump) and. (Your for the eye jump) and pointing to your temple.
haha totally ridiculous

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Sir Jones » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 01:22:39 PM

Livingston Par wrote:
Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 12:00:48 AM
Good job you don't get to make decisions on behalf of FFC then eh?
Learn to quote properly then f*ck off back to your fellow monkey chanting racist fan base please.

Filth has no conscience :D
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Livingston Par » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 01:56:59 PM

Sir Jones wrote:
Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 01:22:39 PM
Livingston Par wrote:
Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 12:00:48 AM
Good job you don't get to make decisions on behalf of FFC then eh?
Learn to quote properly then f*ck off back to your fellow monkey chanting racist fan base please.

Filth has no conscience :D
Hilarious

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Bridge of Allan Bairn » Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 05:15:53 PM

as fans we deserve better than all this. how I miss Leahy vaulks and Alston. players that wanted to win hated losing and chipped in with goals. we need players behaving professionally not abusing people or diving. these players would be better focussing on playing well than getting sleeve tattoos and believing their own hype way before they deserve to.

my only issue with all this is the consistency side an 8 game ban for this when as others have said physical abuse gets much less isn't right.

however were nearly into December and have won one league game I want our players to focus on the game not the side shows stay disciplined and start doing better for all the fans that have paid so much money
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Monday 20th 2017f November 2017 11:13:41 AM

Bridge of Allan Bairn wrote:
Sunday 19th 2017f November 2017 05:15:53 PM
as fans we deserve better than all this. how I miss Leahy vaulks and Alston. players that wanted to win hated losing and chipped in with goals. we need players behaving professionally not abusing people or diving. these players would be better focussing on playing well than getting sleeve tattoos and believing their own hype way before they deserve to.

my only issue with all this is the consistency side an 8 game ban for this when as others have said physical abuse gets much less isn't right.

however were nearly into December and have won one league game I want our players to focus on the game not the side shows stay disciplined and start doing better for all the fans that have paid so much money
Completely agree.

The part about tattoo sleeves is an annoyance of mine too. It’s a pity more young players can’t have the attitude of Kieran Tierney. All he seems to care about is performing well for his club and constantly improving. Tries like a bear too.

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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by gruezi ffc » Wednesday 06th 2017f December 2017 08:39:46 PM

Now we have a 4 week ban on Joe McKee !!!!

Irrespective of what you think of either player .....being hung out to dry by the club is appalling.

I have the feeling there are a few on the BoD who are spineless on this. They are more interested in not rocking the boat for their prestigious positions within the hierarchy...than protecting their own players. The situation with Doug Henderson epitomises this.... they would rather have their crony sidekick within their ranks than abandon him as the shareholders and fans want. If there is anyone with a sense of decency on the BoD (and I know there are) then they should make their feelings known and resign if there is not a fundamental change within the club !!!!
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Habib Utak Al Hansi » Wednesday 06th 2017f December 2017 09:30:31 PM

gruezi ffc wrote:
Wednesday 06th 2017f December 2017 08:39:46 PM
Now we have a 4 week ban on Joe McKee !!!!

Irrespective of what you think of either player .....being hung out to dry by the club is appalling.

I have the feeling there are a few on the BoD who are spineless on this. They are more interested in not rocking the boat for their prestigious positions within the hierarchy...than protecting their own players. The situation with Doug Henderson epitomises this.... they would rather have their crony sidekick within their ranks than abandon him as the shareholders and fans want. If there is anyone with a sense of decency on the BoD (and I know there are) then they should make their feelings known and resign if there is not a fundamental change within the club !!!!
Notice Dunfermline have put out a statement on their website about the situation, we get the expected nothing, apart from a cursory one line statement at 11 o'clock last night, the classic attempt to sneak out bad news. Bend over and take it should be our motto. I wouldn't expect anything more from the clowns who treat their "customers" with such contempt. Relegation to League 1 is well deserved for this bunch.

Why has it taken over two months for this sanction to be handed down ? What were the written reasons to justify banning O'Hara for pretty much a quarter of the season?

A truly disusting episode. Gutless on the park, and gutless off it.
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Re: Kevin O`Hara

Post by Dade » Wednesday 06th 2017f December 2017 10:26:32 PM

gruezi ffc wrote:
Wednesday 06th 2017f December 2017 08:39:46 PM
Now we have a 4 week ban on Joe McKee !!!!

Irrespective of what you think of either player .....being hung out to dry by the club is appalling.

I have the feeling there are a few on the BoD who are spineless on this. They are more interested in not rocking the boat for their prestigious positions within the hierarchy...than protecting their own players. The situation with Doug Henderson epitomises this.... they would rather have their crony sidekick within their ranks than abandon him as the shareholders and fans want. If there is anyone with a sense of decency on the BoD (and I know there are) then they should make their feelings known and resign if there is not a fundamental change within the club !!!!
Thing is, if he's genuinely made fun at Shiels for missing and eye then what do you expect them to say?

The only annoying thing about this is the inconsistency of the SFA. When you consider the retrospective punishment Hippolyte got for his apparent dive at Dunfermline compared to things like Scott Brown getting a red card rescinded and Sinclair not even getting cited for a clear dive in the League cup final.

I've no problems with players getting suspended if found guilty of abusing someones disability but I do have a grievance with the consistency of the punishment for such matters.

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