Taiwo and Kerr stats

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Creative Redemption » Wednesday 13th 2017f September 2017 07:03:57 PM

To be fair, these stats don't hold any water unless stats of other pairings are made against them.
For example, what's the stats when Watson & Kerr start, or Muirhead and Kerr play in the same team?
There is every chance they will be just as bad, which means it might not be the Kerr/Taiwo pairing that's the issue.
Of course we know it doesn't work when they play together, but the stats might not hold up against others.
I can't be arsed looking and I'm sure others can't either.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 13th 2017f September 2017 07:16:02 PM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Wednesday 13th 2017f September 2017 07:03:57 PM
To be fair, these stats don't hold any water unless stats of other pairings are made against them.
For example, what's the stats when Watson & Kerr start, or Muirhead and Kerr play in the same team?
There is every chance they will be just as bad, which means it might not be the Kerr/Taiwo pairing that's the issue.
Of course we know it doesn't work when they play together, but the stats might not hold up against others.
I can't be arsed looking and I'm sure others can't either.

I think Dade has previously acknowledged this fact. There are many variables that haven't been taken into consideration. I think the main point here is that there are fewer chances being created which means fewer goals as they contribute very little in the way of goals or assists.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Thursday 14th 2017f September 2017 12:28:36 AM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Wednesday 13th 2017f September 2017 07:03:57 PM
To be fair, these stats don't hold any water unless stats of other pairings are made against them.
For example, what's the stats when Watson & Kerr start, or Muirhead and Kerr play in the same team?
There is every chance they will be just as bad, which means it might not be the Kerr/Taiwo pairing that's the issue.
Of course we know it doesn't work when they play together, but the stats might not hold up against others.
I can't be arsed looking and I'm sure others can't either.
As Falkirkbairn90 said I did point this out but in any case I took time to check that out as someone had queried it so really don't get the point of your post especially when you can't be arsed to research anything yourself.

The stats just back up the the quite obvious perception from many that the team is worse off when Taiwo and Kerr start together.

Simply pairing up any two players for comparison makes no sense whatsoever and would do nothing at all to make the original assumption about Taiwo and Kerr hold any more water. The only thing that is required is the overall team average of which I can tell you apart from the first season the win percentage is worse whenever Taiwo and Kerr have started. This season, in the league it's a wee bit better because the 2 times only one has started we've lost however if I added in the league cup then it would be worse than the team average as all 4 games we won was with only one of them starting and the 1 game we lost to Livi they both started! Also only Taiwo started against Sligo which was another victory!

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Creative Redemption » Thursday 14th 2017f September 2017 10:30:39 AM

I wasn't slamming your work on this,and it wasn't aimed at you. My main point is really that the obsession people are having with Kerr and Taiwo playing together is one of he root causes of our problems. It's not. It's certainly not helping, but a lot of folk (not you in particular) seem to think that changing this midfield tandem will suddenly help the team. It could, but then again, it might not.
I just think there are imbalances all over the squad, but the K/T partnership gets particular attention for some reason.
I do agree they don't add much to the forward movement the team, but if the defence did their jobs properly, the keeper maybe tried to save a couple of shots, and the forwards stuck the ball in the pokey now and again, we would get a more rounded picture of where our issues actually lie. Personally, I don't think it's the K/T partnership that is our main issue. I think it's our defence and keeper.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Thursday 14th 2017f September 2017 11:56:32 AM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Thursday 14th 2017f September 2017 10:30:39 AM
I wasn't slamming your work on this,and it wasn't aimed at you. My main point is really that the obsession people are having with Kerr and Taiwo playing together is one of he root causes of our problems. It's not. It's certainly not helping, but a lot of folk (not you in particular) seem to think that changing this midfield tandem will suddenly help the team. It could, but then again, it might not.
I just think there are imbalances all over the squad, but the K/T partnership gets particular attention for some reason.
I do agree they don't add much to the forward movement the team, but if the defence did their jobs properly, the keeper maybe tried to save a couple of shots, and the forwards stuck the ball in the pokey now and again, we would get a more rounded picture of where our issues actually lie. Personally, I don't think it's the K/T partnership that is our main issue. I think it's our defence and keeper.
Yeh that's fair enough and I do agree. The imbalance of the squad is one of the biggest factors and having to stick with a rookie left back and an unnatural right back isn't helping matters either. I did actually put stats on a Lewis Kidd forum which showed we are better defensively with him a right back. That's not necessarily to do with his tackling prowess but maybe the fact he knows how to play that position better.

Kerrs age and the fact he's been getting regular 90 minutes in the centre of midfield doesn't help either. He can't contribute the way he used to. There's many factors but over the past 3 years the Kerr/Taiwo one has been one of the most striking.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Brian Scrimegour » Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 08:58:41 AM

Difficult to say whether Kidd was the main reason we did well at those times as there are other influences especially the centrehalf pairings he played with. The best run I think we had last season funnily enough was with gasparotto and McCracken playing at centreback and Kidd also played for most of those games. We lost to ayr United in the challenge cup with kidd playing but the centrebacks funnily enough that day were Gasparotto and Watson so no real surprise there. Otherwise Kidd played mostly with Gasparotto and Grant which included two defeats to Hibs and Morton. I always felt that McCracken organised a defence far better than the rest but unfortunately he used to run out of steam around the turn of the year.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 10:06:25 AM

Brian Scrimegour wrote:
Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 08:58:41 AM
Difficult to say whether Kidd was the main reason we did well at those times as there are other influences especially the centrehalf pairings he played with. The best run I think we had last season funnily enough was with gasparotto and McCracken playing at centreback and Kidd also played for most of those games. We lost to ayr United in the challenge cup with kidd playing but the centrebacks funnily enough that day were Gasparotto and Watson so no real surprise there. Otherwise Kidd played mostly with Gasparotto and Grant which included two defeats to Hibs and Morton. I always felt that McCracken organised a defence far better than the rest but unfortunately he used to run out of steam around the turn of the year.
Looking at the league alone Kidd didn't feature in the first 3 games where we lost twice and drew one.

After that he started in 6 consecutive games where we won 5 and drew 1. He then got injured and as soon as he was out we lost 2 and drew 2 with McCracken and Gasparotto still playing at centre half.

The other 6 matches Kidd started later on in the season we won 3 lost 2 and drew 1. The 2 defeats like you say we're against Morton and Hibs(Kidd was actually off for the Hibs winner).

In cup matches Kidd started 4, won 2, lost 2(Stirling and Ayr).

As you say there are other factors but his presence in the league seemed to result in us winning more and losing less. I may be talking rubbish and it's nothing to do with him but I think knowing the position and where to be has a lot to do with it. When Muirhead plays he gets caught out of position and that maybe stretches the centre halves when they suddenly have to cover for him. The biggest example I can think of is the 3-2 at home to Rangers. Time after time Wallace was able to feed a pass through Muirhead's left for McKay to run on to. Had he been tighter to the centre half then that wouldn't have been possible and if the ball came to McKay he'd be goal side and force him to go back or to try beat him down the line.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 10:34:31 AM

To reiterate the Kidd stats(league only)

Falkirk with Kidd starting-
Played 12
Won 8(66.6%)
Drew 2(16.5%)
Lost 2(16.5%)
Scored 21(avg- 1.75/game)
Conceded 10(avg- 0.83/game)

Falkirk without Kidd
Played 24
Won 8(33.3%)
Drew 10(41.6%)
Lost 6(25%)
Scored 37(avg- 1.54/game)
Conceded 30(avg- 1.25/game)

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Bridge of Allan Bairn » Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 05:14:33 PM

I've said a number of times I like both Kerr and taiwo but never been a fan of them together. I'd play one at a time unless we are up and defending a lead late on. I think this pairing is maybe more important than others because it's at the heart of the park and their style of play dictates our style and tempo of play. with both on the park we effectively have 7 defensively minded players in a league where most weeks we should be favourites to win the game. you could rely on the likes of vaulks and even Leahy in that back 7 in the past to score quite a few goals between them but even that's gone now. imo we need a more progressive player in one if those two slots and hoped McKee would be that man after initial promise. taiwo and Kerr rarely assist never mind score which is why if we have any ambitions to win games and the league we need one sacrificed to take the game to the opposition more. I think maybe harsh on them but when they play together we are so slow and crab like in the middle we lose urgency which is what we all want. especially in some of these awful home games
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Friday 15th 2017f September 2017 11:43:50 PM

I agree with all but in defence. In my opinion Kerr is not a defensive minded midfielder. He was a box to box midfielder that was able to control the tempo of the game but that part of his game has gone and I often find him wanting in defence. in that sense having them both in midfield late on in games does nothing to shore up the defence IMO but invites pressure on to us. The play-off first leg was a prime example of that.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 06:05:04 PM

Paid attention to Mark Kerr today and although he didn't do too much wrong he also just doesn't do much.

He just sits in front of the back 4. That's fine when we're defending if he narrows down the space for United to attack in however he's still not a great ball winner.

In attack all he wants to do is drop back pick up the ball from a defender and play a simple 10 yard pass. Mark Kerr of old would be moving forward continuing to pass and move and work out way up the pitch but he no longer has the legs for that. He just sits deep and makes passes that the 2 guys behind him could easily make. He should be looking for the ball in pockets behind the United front men and not in front of it. It just means when he's on the ball there's normally 11 United players ahead of him and 1 less Falkirk player to aim a pass to with less space in which to play it in. Wouldn't be so bad if he passed and moved with it but he rarely over laps the guy he's passed it to and doesn't move forward in any space he has.

He also slows down the tempo far too much and by the time he plays the pass United are back and organised. A prime example of that was the last 2 minutes of the match when we got a free kick and instead of taking it early he waited, United got all there players behind the ball and from the Free kick he played an awful pass that went straight out for a bye kick.

It's a bit harsh but I just feel he's not adding much to the team. Maybe he'd be better in a Scott Mckenzie style sweeper role and take control of the ball with the whole team ahead of him.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 09:03:59 PM

I gave Kerr a 4/10 today and I was being generous. He was sh1t. Not once that I remember did he play a ball that made us more attacking, upped the tempo, or stretched their defence. As dade says he adds nothing and to my mind is a waste of a jersey. McGee and Balatoni to a lesser extent, in central defence, played many more attacking balls than he did.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by rusty_nail » Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 09:34:53 PM

John Markie wrote:
Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 09:03:59 PM
I gave Kerr a 4/10 today and I was being generous. He was sh1t. Not once that I remember did he play a ball that made us more attacking, upped the tempo, or stretched their defence. As dade says he adds nothing and to my mind is a waste of a jersey. McGee and Balatoni to a lesser extent, in central defence, played many more attacking balls than he did.
Looked to me like the legs have gone. A few times today he was caught dawdling with the ball and put himself (and us) unnecessarily under pressure instead of just playing it.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 11:59:39 PM

John Markie wrote:
Saturday 16th 2017f September 2017 09:03:59 PM
I gave Kerr a 4/10 today and I was being generous. He was sh1t. Not once that I remember did he play a ball that made us more attacking, upped the tempo, or stretched their defence. As dade says he adds nothing and to my mind is a waste of a jersey. McGee and Balatoni to a lesser extent, in central defence, played many more attacking balls than he did.
Felt the 4 was maybe harsh in that he didn't do too much wrong but yeh if it was in context of what he provided then a 4 was probably right as he takes no risks whatsoever. Keeps dropping back and taking the ball in areas with little pressure and makes easy passes that don't really get us going anywhere. Anytime he was pressured he looked in trouble and instantly turned to face the goal keeper or whoever was behind him.

When it became obvious that Harris was our main threat he really should have been looking to direct the play to his side and get the ball to Harris as quick as possible to hit them on the counter. He tries to control the tempo of the game in the way he used to but since he's so slow that reduces the tempo of the whole team to his pace.

I feel bad as I'm a Mark Kerr fan(or was) and hate to see him become a target of abuse but Houston really should stop playing him.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Monday 18th 2017f September 2017 11:06:28 PM

I think these stats are indicative of team performance simply because these guys are the "engine room" of the team, and as such tend to set tempo and aggression. We will have to leave the aggression aside as mouseman Kerr is rarely in trouble with refs. I would also say Kerr is the least effective captain I have ever seen at Falkirk. He offers nothing on the leadership side and as for being a driving force, don't make me laugh.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Creative Redemption » Tuesday 19th 2017f September 2017 01:16:50 PM

John Markie wrote:
Monday 18th 2017f September 2017 11:06:28 PM
I think these stats are indicative of team performance simply because these guys are the "engine room" of the team, and as such tend to set tempo and aggression. We will have to leave the aggression aside as mouseman Kerr is rarely in trouble with refs. I would also say Kerr is the least effective captain I have ever seen at Falkirk. He offers nothing on the leadership side and as for being a driving force, don't make me laugh.
I mentioned in another post, but for my own amusement, I will say it again. :)
Burton O Brien is and always will be, the worst captain of Falkirk, for many, MANY reasons.
Here comes the doom.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Creative Redemption » Tuesday 19th 2017f September 2017 01:19:25 PM

I would add the I feel the whole team is not showing any level of confidence to play the ball forward.
Harris should have been fed quicker as JM says, and this should have been done 3 passes earlier on each occassion than what it was.
That comes done to nobody wanting to take the risk in taking out the middle midfielder and playing the long pas outwide to set up a fast counter attack.
Will Vaulks used to be the player to take tht risk, but nobody within this team does. I reckon McKee could, but he is scared to do so in case the crownd destroys him. They have brought it on themselves.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Wednesday 20th 2017f September 2017 05:29:20 PM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Tuesday 19th 2017f September 2017 01:16:50 PM
John Markie wrote:
Monday 18th 2017f September 2017 11:06:28 PM
I think these stats are indicative of team performance simply because these guys are the "engine room" of the team, and as such tend to set tempo and aggression. We will have to leave the aggression aside as mouseman Kerr is rarely in trouble with refs. I would also say Kerr is the least effective captain I have ever seen at Falkirk. He offers nothing on the leadership side and as for being a driving force, don't make me laugh.
I mentioned in another post, but for my own amusement, I will say it again. :)
Burton O Brien is and always will be, the worst captain of Falkirk, for many, MANY reasons.
How quickly we (or I anyway) forget. I stand corrected. My mate the slug. Ahh happy days slagging him off, as my alter ego alba.
A.P.K.A. - alba bairn. I don't know why they "suspended" my previous account? Ask them.....

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Wednesday 20th 2017f September 2017 05:31:28 PM

Creative Redemption wrote:
Tuesday 19th 2017f September 2017 01:19:25 PM
I would add the I feel the whole team is not showing any level of confidence to play the ball forward.
Harris should have been fed quicker as JM says, and this should have been done 3 passes earlier on each occassion than what it was.
That comes done to nobody wanting to take the risk in taking out the middle midfielder and playing the long pas outwide to set up a fast counter attack.
Will Vaulks used to be the player to take tht risk, but nobody within this team does. I reckon McKee could, but he is scared to do so in case the crownd destroys him. They have brought it on themselves.
McGee and Balatoni are best at creative passing strait to forwards. Both of them did that to pretty good effect on Saturday. McGee in particular was always looking to hit long crossfield passes a la Vaulks style.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Ranaldo Bairn » Wednesday 20th 2017f September 2017 07:00:56 PM

John Markie wrote:
Wednesday 20th 2017f September 2017 05:29:20 PM
Creative Redemption wrote:
Tuesday 19th 2017f September 2017 01:16:50 PM
John Markie wrote:
Monday 18th 2017f September 2017 11:06:28 PM
I think these stats are indicative of team performance simply because these guys are the "engine room" of the team, and as such tend to set tempo and aggression. We will have to leave the aggression aside as mouseman Kerr is rarely in trouble with refs. I would also say Kerr is the least effective captain I have ever seen at Falkirk. He offers nothing on the leadership side and as for being a driving force, don't make me laugh.
I mentioned in another post, but for my own amusement, I will say it again. :)
Burton O Brien is and always will be, the worst captain of Falkirk, for many, MANY reasons.
How quickly we (or I anyway) forget. I stand corrected. My mate the slug. Ahh happy days slagging him off, as my alter ego alba.
You certainly do forget!
The Slug was Kevin McBride.
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