Taiwo and Kerr stats

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Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 11:51:01 AM

Thought I'd have a quick glance at the league and playoff results for when Taiwo and Kerr start together. It is quite a brief look so doesn't go in to what the scores were when both were on the pitch. It's purely when they have started together and what the final result was.

14/15

Started 11
Won 5(Hearts, Livi, Cowdenbeath x2, Raith)
Drew 3(Rangers x 2, Raith)
Lost 3(QoS, Hibs, Hearts)

15/16
Started 15
Won 6(Livi, Dumbarton, Morton x2, St.Mirren x2) *Kerr injured 9 mins vs Dumbarton and Taiwo injured 9 mins vs Morton
Drew 7(Morton, Alloa, St.Mirren, QoS, Hibs x2, Raith) *Taiwo injured 39 mins vs Morton
Lost 2(Rangers, Kilmarnock)

16/17
Started 24
Won 8(Dumbarton, Raith x2, DU, Ayr x2, Dunfermline, QoS)
Drew 8(St.Mirren x2, Morton, Hibs, Dunfermline, Ayr, DU, QoS) *Taiwo red after 25mins vs Hibs
Lost 8(QoS, Raith, DU, Dumbarton, Hibs x2, Morton, Dunfermline)


There are obviously other factors that come in to play but it seems clear that we are progressively getting worse when they start together. Can someone please pass this on to Mr Houston.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by dixie chicken » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 11:55:58 AM

Just watched PH's post match interview where he was going on about all the injuries.
He's certainly a good spin merchant.
The stats regarding Kerr/Taiwo are very revealing and only confirm what every fan knows.
Fortunately, I missed last night but the reports sound dreadful.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Olaf Thom » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 12:02:10 PM

So EVERY league game we got beat last season, Kerr and Taiwo started?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 12:05:26 PM

dixie chicken wrote:Just watched PH's post match interview where he was going on about all the injuries.
He's certainly a good spin merchant.
The stats regarding Kerr/Taiwo are very revealing and only confirm what every fan knows.
Fortunately, I missed last night but the reports sound dreadful.
Watched that too. I can maybe understand his feeling that Finlayson isn't quite ready yet as we can see that with Gallagher however it's no excuse. If no right back is available then why not adopt formation to suit the players available by going 3 at the back. We may have been thin with injuries but there were still plenty of options available to provide a far more effective line-up than what we played last night.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 12:05:56 PM

Olaf Thom wrote:So EVERY league game we got beat last season, Kerr and Taiwo started?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seems like it. Also 2 of the 3 games we lost last season and 3 of the 5 games we lost after Kerr signed in 2014/2015. The trend is clear.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Kiddy » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 01:28:32 PM

Mark Kerr should be nowhere near the starting 11.
That's been painfully obvious for the last season & this.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 05:03:06 PM

Kiddy wrote:Mark Kerr should be nowhere near the starting 11.
That's been painfully obvious for the last season & this.
I was saying last night he wouldn't get near the Livi team so why should he be in ours. I noticed he was in the dugout at Forth Valley under 17's match a couple weeks ago, im happy for him to bring these lads on but let's thank him for his brilliant service to FFC and set him on his merry way.

I'm usually fairly positive and well balanced on this but finding it difficult after the last 2 displays and last night in particular was painful to watch.

Very interesting stats there Dade and by the looks of things, everyone on here has been 100% correct about not enjoying them playing together. Thanks for the research!

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 05:15:03 PM

Kiddy wrote:Mark Kerr should be nowhere near the starting 11.
That's been painfully obvious for the last season & this.
I agree but he was far from our worst player last night.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 07:23:08 PM

Dade wrote:
Kiddy wrote:Mark Kerr should be nowhere near the starting 11.
That's been painfully obvious for the last season & this.
I agree but he was far from our worst player last night.

Hippo wins that award with Austin coming in 2nd

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Bridge of Allan Bairn » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 07:28:03 PM

I actually like Kerr and taiwo but I just don't get playing them together unless you are away to the likes of Dundee United and hibs. Houston has persevered with them together in home games against teams we should be besting. they are both too similar there to break play down be quick footed get the pass away. they're not quick and don't score or assist many so there's only room for one. I'd happily play both over the season but rotate them
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Bula Bairn » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 07:36:12 PM

Bridge of Allan Bairn wrote:I actually like Kerr and taiwo but I just don't get playing them together unless you are away to the likes of Dundee United and hibs. Houston has persevered with them together in home games against teams we should be besting. they are both too similar there to break play down be quick footed get the pass away. they're not quick and don't score or assist many so there's only room for one. I'd happily play both over the season but rotate them
Agree with that. Houston must be the only one that thinks they work well together - stats are pretty damming!

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 08:06:30 PM

Bula Bairn wrote:
Bridge of Allan Bairn wrote:I actually like Kerr and taiwo but I just don't get playing them together unless you are away to the likes of Dundee United and hibs. Houston has persevered with them together in home games against teams we should be besting. they are both too similar there to break play down be quick footed get the pass away. they're not quick and don't score or assist many so there's only room for one. I'd happily play both over the season but rotate them
Agree with that. Houston must be the only one that thinks they work well together - stats are pretty damming!
I've had a think about the stats and although they are interesting and compelling there are so many variables that haven't been taken into consideration...

Problem with any stats is correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Maybe there's a link between them playing and results but thats not to say their causing the results, too many other variables to consider. Also, who was playing against them for the opposition, Dumbarton x 2 for example, were the same 22 players in the park for the same amount of time, did subs for either team impact. But as far as showing a trend then yeah, it shows that. These stats certainly don't take into account Craigen trying to play a 60 yard pass that was intercepted and leads to a break away goal (last night)

As said by most, I think Taiwo & Kerr do not belong together on the pitch. Either one or the other as I believe they don't offer creativity and won't create as many opportunities as other pairings would (not looked at the stats but I believe that to be true) in any case it's all very interesting stuff and makes for a compelling argument.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 08:43:53 PM

Falkirkbairn90 wrote:
Bula Bairn wrote:
Bridge of Allan Bairn wrote:I actually like Kerr and taiwo but I just don't get playing them together unless you are away to the likes of Dundee United and hibs. Houston has persevered with them together in home games against teams we should be besting. they are both too similar there to break play down be quick footed get the pass away. they're not quick and don't score or assist many so there's only room for one. I'd happily play both over the season but rotate them
Agree with that. Houston must be the only one that thinks they work well together - stats are pretty damming!
I've had a think about the stats and although they are interesting and compelling there are so many variables that haven't been taken into consideration...

Problem with any stats is correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Maybe there's a link between them playing and results but thats not to say their causing the results, too many other variables to consider. Also, who was playing against them for the opposition, Dumbarton x 2 for example, were the same 22 players in the park for the same amount of time, did subs for either team impact. But as far as showing a trend then yeah, it shows that. These stats certainly don't take into account Craigen trying to play a 60 yard pass that was intercepted and leads to a break away goal (last night)

As said by most, I think Taiwo & Kerr do not belong together on the pitch. Either one or the other as I believe they don't offer creativity and won't create as many opportunities as other pairings would (not looked at the stats but I believe that to be true) in any case it's all very interesting stuff and makes for a compelling argument.
I did say there were other things to take in to consideration however they still say something. Also the ones I had marked where either got injured or sent off early were in games we drew or won, not lost. You could easily take them off the list and the figures would be more damning.

To me the major problem is that Kerr And Taiwo rarely score or assist goals so with both in the team that's 2 less players that are going to help win us the game. Add to that I don't believe either are particularly great in defence, certainly not to the extent that playing them together makes us more solid. As shown above that doesn't appear to be the case with both starting in almost every game we've lost the last 3 seasons.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Falkirkbairn90 » Wednesday 09th 2017f August 2017 09:01:11 PM

I completely agree they absolutely say something. I just thought it was interesting to look at other variables. Some excellent research on the stats and as I said they are extremely compelling. in complete agreement that we are less likely to score with both on the pitch which means if we concede then a draw is a likely result which is reflected in the past 2 seasons. 15 draws when they've played is astounding. All very interesting stuff, maybe once we get back to full strength it won't be like that...

One thing is for certain, Kerr will not be playing any part in Saturday's game. 120 minutes for him, he spent most of last night in hospital I'd imagine after a shift like that.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Kiddy » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 10:05:45 AM

Mark Kerr will be starting on Saturday, right reason or none. He's just made him Club Captain.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 06:12:33 PM

Falkirkbairn90 wrote:I completely agree they absolutely say something. I just thought it was interesting to look at other variables. Some excellent research on the stats and as I said they are extremely compelling. in complete agreement that we are less likely to score with both on the pitch which means if we concede then a draw is a likely result which is reflected in the past 2 seasons. 15 draws when they've played is astounding. All very interesting stuff, maybe once we get back to full strength it won't be like that...

One thing is for certain, Kerr will not be playing any part in Saturday's game. 120 minutes for him, he spent most of last night in hospital I'd imagine after a shift like that.
He shouldn't play on Saturday put I wouldn't be surprised if he did. It's ashamed for Kerr as I have loads of respect for the guy but he will be 36 this season and it's clear his best days are far behind him. It wouldn't bother me so much if he used his experience to lead the team in a game like Tuesday but he's as quiet as anyone on the pitch and looks nowhere near as assured with the ball as he used to.

We seriously lack leaders on the pitch.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 08:20:08 PM

Dade wrote:Thought I'd have a quick glance at the league and playoff results for when Taiwo and Kerr start together. It is quite a brief look so doesn't go in to what the scores were when both were on the pitch. It's purely when they have started together and what the final result was.

14/15

Started 11
Won 5(Hearts, Livi, Cowdenbeath x2, Raith)
Drew 3(Rangers x 2, Raith)
Lost 3(QoS, Hibs, Hearts)

15/16
Started 15
Won 6(Livi, Dumbarton, Morton x2, St.Mirren x2) *Kerr injured 9 mins vs Dumbarton and Taiwo injured 9 mins vs Morton
Drew 7(Morton, Alloa, St.Mirren, QoS, Hibs x2, Raith) *Taiwo injured 39 mins vs Morton
Lost 2(Rangers, Kilmarnock)

16/17
Started 24
Won 8(Dumbarton, Raith x2, DU, Ayr x2, Dunfermline, QoS)
Drew 8(St.Mirren x2, Morton, Hibs, Dunfermline, Ayr, DU, QoS) *Taiwo red after 25mins vs Hibs
Lost 8(QoS, Raith, DU, Dumbarton, Hibs x2, Morton, Dunfermline)


There are obviously other factors that come in to play but it seems clear that we are progressively getting worse when they start together. Can someone please pass this on to Mr Houston.
Thanks for digging this out. It feels every time they start together we lose. Not as bad as I thought, but still dreadful if you look at last season on its own.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 08:45:41 PM

Yeh wasn't as bad as I thought either but progressively getting worse, no doubt due to the fact Kerr is getting older and past his best.

It's ashame because the last thing I want is for Kerr to end his Legacy with Falkirk limping out as a failure but that's exactly what will happen if Houston continues to over utilise him.

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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by John Markie » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 09:24:49 PM

Dade wrote:Yeh wasn't as bad as I thought either but progressively getting worse, no doubt due to the fact Kerr is getting older and past his best.

It's ashame because the last thing I want is for Kerr to end his Legacy with Falkirk limping out as a failure but that's exactly what will happen if Houston continues to over utilise him.
On his game with strong players around him he can be useful in controlling a game. But he is long past his sell by date, as you say. We are crying out for players like Vaulks in midfield who could run all day, tackle and impose themselves whilst also chipping in with the odd goal or two. Another interesting stat would be when he last scored (and how many) for us in the last 3 seasons. I doubt it will be even a handful, and that isn't good enough either. Thought it was laughable on Tuesday when he found himself in shooting distance and just knew he'd never get close to the target and made a lateral pass instead. Not the leadership I would want from my team (or club) captain.

The last three seasons have seen us get progressively weaker and weaker in important games. The team as a whole look like a collection of utter shytebags with no courage or self belief. We lose a goal and immediately we look beaten. As soon as St Mirren scored against us, there was only ever going to be one winner. Likewise, even after we scored against Livvi, it was them, not us that looked the more likely to win. Its no longer something we should be shrugging off, its unacceptable.
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Re: Taiwo and Kerr stats

Post by Dade » Thursday 10th 2017f August 2017 09:52:19 PM

His goals/assists stats are:

14/15
Played 19
Scored 0
Assists 2
15/16
Played 43
Scored 2
Assists 5
16/17
Played 39
Scored 0
Assists 3

His last goal was vs Alloa on the 3rd of May 2016

It's not as bad as I thought but then again he's never been a goal scorer, even his prime. What we are no longer getting though is his influence in the middle of the park, his sure headness and ability to control the tempo of the game.

Taiwo's stats are:

14/15
Played 41
Scored 3
Assists 5
15/16
Played 27
Scored 0
Assists 2
16/17
Played 31
Scored 1
Assists 2

What's clear is that neither are particularly influential around the goalmouth. If we want to score goals it's clear we can only afford to have one playing at any time. Kerr can still contribute but he should be used sparingly and without Taiwo in the team.

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